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Ex-Mass Effect Designer Defends ME3 DLC
It seems that many gamers have been in an uproar over the fact that Mass Effect 3 has day-one DLC, leading them to complain that EA and BioWare have simply left material off the disc in an effort to make a quick buck. Much of the anger comes from the recent discovery that data for the “From Ashes” DLC’s downloadable character was already on the disc—signaling to gamers that BioWare was ripping off game purchasers by making them pay for DLC-data even if they didn’t buy the content, and that, in fact, this content should’ve and could’ve simply been included in the main game since it utilizes content that’s on the disc.
But former BioWare designer Christina Norman—who was ME2 and ME3’s lead designer until she left for Riot Games in July—has responded to the criticisms, asking gamers to refrain from denigrating the DLC for its early timing and instead judge it on its own merits.
“There’s no point in releasing DLC a year after your game has come out when most people have already sold your game back to GameStop three times,” Norman is quoted as saying in a post on Eurogamer. “that means getting it out early; that means even day-one DLC.”
At GDC this past week, Norman offered an extended explanation of the DLC’s timing, and whether or not it’s fair for consumers to react so vehemently against it:
“[Day-one DLC] is a terrible thing to some players. Players rant—they know nothing about this DLC that’s coming out except its name. But then it’s ‘oh this game must be incomplete, the game must be ruined.’ Game developers are not evil. (Some are evil.) But most are not evil.
“We just want to release awesome stuff. Players please, give us a chance. Judge our games based on what they are. Judge the DLC based on what it is.
“Stop thinking you’re a producer and telling us when and where we should be building our content.”
Norman doesn’t really benefit at all from defending the final Mass Effect 3 product—though she should still be credited for her work on the game before she left BioWare. But the fact is, she doesn’t work with BioWare or EA any longer, making her defense a bit more, well, defensible. And adding credibility to her statements, a lot of gamers tend to hate on EA really, really easily—myself included. Furthermore, as we’ve learned in the last few weeks, it seems as though fans of Mass Effect are gaining a reputation for being some of the more, uh, passionate gaming fans out there. So it’s conceivable that some of this mountain may, in fact, be more of a molehill.
But, hey, what the fuck do I know? I haven’t played or bought Mass Effect 3. What do YOU, the DISCERNING GAMER think?
Via Eurogamer
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This is my response
http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/36jkfc/
+1
I lol’d
Her entire defense is a moot point because this really shouldn’t even be considered DLC. It’s content that was made before the final version of the game was even sent out for certification, as proven by the leaked script months earlier which contained lines from Javik. In the face of these facts, how can anybody even try to defend that this wasn’t just removed from the game to monetize it even further?
^Seconded.
.+1
Seconded.
Day 1 DLC is dumb and greedy. I mean, holy shit, they’ve already made enough money off of the game, why would you then go on to try and squeeze more money out of the consumer? As I recall, new copies of Mass Effect 2 got you the Zaeed and Firewalker DLC free of charge. All you had to do was buy the game new. Now, if you buy the game new, you get to play Multiplayer. That’s a reward, now. You get to play content that’s on the disk. I think it’s kind of fucked up, to be honest. Day 1 DLC and Online Passes are both super dumb.
Pretty obvious that they want to give less for more in return.
Exactly it’s OK for them to encourage pre-orders and week 1 sales (they seem to be obssessed with week 1 sales), but that is not a excuse to cut stuff from the game.
to quote TB here:
Anything made post launch and is on the disk we should be entitled to. after that they can charge anything they want and put out anything they want, but if it’s on the disk we should be entitled to it.
never played mass effect and probably never will, but when i found out that the dlc is in the dick and can be unlocked by modify 1 line in the code i think thats just ripping people off when they pay for the dlc what just changes the code of the main game a little bit.
im just pissed about the ending
I used to love Bioware games, but EA has ruined them. I have bought Dragon Age, the DA expansion, several DLCs and Mass EEffectI and II. Because of Origins and day one DLC, I am done with EA. I will stick with steam.
mass effect is one of the best roleplaying series so its obvious that the have get some money out of it. the game without dlc took me about 20 hours and thats worth 60 bucks considering its replay value.
“There’s no point in releasing DLC a year after your game has come out when most people have already sold your game back to GameStop three times.”
The whole freaking POINT of DLC is to increase the longevity of a game down the line and discourage players from selling on – NOT to rape their loyal fanbase on day 1. This, along with the micro-transactions in the multiplayer plus the abhorrent ending to the campaign has got me thinking that EA nor Bioware deserve a penny more from me.
Then that’s the entire point. After a year of most games there’s no one playing and therefore NO ONE TO BUY THE DLC; the purpose of the said DLC is therefore nullified. I’m not a fan of pre-order bonuses or paid Day 1 DLC, but people need to seriously calm down over this. The designers are not meant to be kicked around. They made a game, you bought it, now go enjoy it. Just don’t come whining to the rest of us when something doesn’t go your way.
But isn’t DLC meant to make players play the game more? I mean developers who are smart make a game that is played for a certain amount of weeks or months and can then release DLC to further the gaming experience. If released day one, that’s when the point of DLC is nullified. Also, what do you mean quit complaining and just enjoy the game? If we don’t have our say now, and stand up against what is obviously taking advantage of the consumers, these companies will keep pushing the limits of acceptable behavior so that in the end we pay $100 for 2 hours of gameplay. We have a right to complain and ask more of these people, they make money off of us, we have power over them in that respect. Why would I just be okay will poor quality, for any product/service?
You, sir, are an idiot. This day-1 DLC will add another hour onto the game, and then people will sell it again! The whole point is that people hang on to the game for when DLC is released later on down the line.
“Stop thinking you’re a producer and telling us when and where we should be building our content.”
I can’t believe the gall of this woman. We’re the ones who have supported the firm for years, and then basically says our opinion is not valid? Wow.
But this “Day 1 DLC” can’t really be considered an actual “Add on” considering it took them no extra time to make it since it was ripped off the final cut of the game and then sold separately so its not really adding any Extra game time to the game just giving back what you should have had from the start. this is just wrong and is not something that should become a common practice among Game Devs
That’s reversed. DLC should be there to encourage people to hold onto their games and come back to it again months later, just like expansion packs did in the past. If it wouldn’t get this result, then clearly their game wasn’t as good as they hyped it up to be.
Plus, try thinking of it from a (non-fanatic) consumer standpoint. If this was any other game, why the hell would you go out and buy DLC on the same day that the game is released, considering you have yet to even play it? EA knows that people will do this just because of the hype surrounding the franchise. It’s a complete disrespect for their fans.
Err, replied to the wrong post :<
Why complain if you know you’re gonna get the game and all the dlc? It was either get this dlc now and get javik in your first play through or get it later after having beat the game multiple times, and being forced to play it one more time just to get the full experience. If you’re a real fan why should it matter; its a matter of pay now or pay later.
it’s not a matter of pay now or later its a matter of fighting for something that should be free and never should have been kept from the fans for selfish reasons.
You know your shit, I’m glad some people know a thing or two about consumer rights.
I think people really need to calm down. The distinction of whether it’s on the disk or not doesn’t really seem relevant to me. It’s an optional extra, that you can purchase, or not. Your call. The consumer doesn’t get to decide exactly how much content it is due from the supplier. Can anyone argue that Mass Effect 3 is a sloppy, short, incomplete experience? Probably not (apart from the trolls of course). The whole system isn’t without precedent. There are any number of products in any manner of categories that come with the availability of optional extras for an extra buck. If Mass Effect 3 left me feeling that I was missing half the game ’til I bought the DLC, I’d be unhappy. But it didn’t. Also, as far as I’m concerned, the more money that goes into development of the games I love rather than profiteering second hand retailers, the better. DLC is a relatively new concept.The rules are not set in stone. Gaming is changing. These are facts we can’t deny. Mass Effect 3 is a great game. That is another fact we can’t deny. I think people need to calm down and think logically about all this, and stop hating on companies for trying to do what it is they’re supposed to do. Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinions and I’m not trying to make people angry. This is just how I feel.
You’ve got a legit point in that companies are doing what companies do, we can’t hate on that in my opinion either. But I disagree about the distinction of whether or not the DLC is already on the disk or not. DLC is an addition to the original game, it is more, it is extra, it was not ever even intended to be in the original game.That is, in my mind, the point of DLC. When a developer has made an awesome game players love and want to play more of, even though there is no more, they can make and release DLC so that those gamers who want to extend their experience with their games can do so. The fact that this DLC was already set in the disk shows that the developer didn’t ever consider the DLC an extra, they planned the game around the fact that DLC will be released, that means that considering the seed of the release of the DLC, the DLC is kind of a part of the main game, but we have to pay extra for it,even though it was made as a part of the original whole game.
I’m sorry but I have to disagree. DLC has been around since the XBL Market has been out, and that was roughly 5-6 years ago possibly even longer. DLC is not a new concept at all. Dev’s and publishers are making up new ways to get DLC’s out.
I have no problem with DLC. I for one am with DLC as long as it’s reasonably priced for it’s content. But The ME3 DLC isn’t, for the fact it can be obtained without having to pay for it by altering the code to get Javik for free.
I got it for free either way as I got the CE edition but I can see why people are annoyed. Let me break it down for the not so ME savvy people.
The DLC enables the gamer to access Javik, A humanoid alien called the Prothean (spelling…hard to spell XD). If I gave the full version it’d take me forever. Short story is that the Protheans are a major plot device in the series. The whole reason Mass Effect started was a Prothean beacon, in turn we learned about the Prothean extinction. in ME2, they played a big part in a plot twist which for spoilers I shall not disclose and now in ME3 they yet again have a big part.
Now an established lore character such as Javik should be included in the full game and not as DLC. Simply put, because without Javik, you get half the lore. He tells you things that you’d never have known about the Protheans if you speak to him.
Mass Effect fans have grown to love the series not because it’s a game. But the lore behind the games is that extensive it’s second only to Star Wars in the sci-fi department and they are being forced to pay for something that should be included for LORE reasoning.
I think the reason people are making a mountain out of a hill is because of EA. They don’t have the best reputation and they don’t seem to care about said reputation at all. In-fact EA is the only other big publisher you hear about. Square Enix has somewhat dissapeared since Deus Ex and 5 out of 7 PC games I’ve purchased in the last few months have come from none other than EA.
People need to learn to divide Publisher and Developer and keep them separate. Marketing falls to EA but they also get limited say in how the story goes. Video Games is simply interactive story telling, with the publisher telling the author how they want the story to go.
So in theory, blame EA for all the annoyances. Bioware have slowly been going downhill since EA had acquired them but I shall always stick by Bioware for their previous games. I for one think ME3 is a great game but that’s a story for another time.
I just also wanted to add, sometimes ME3 refers to some things from the ME2 DLC, I can tell because I do not remember those things from the actual story line, but yeah it seems like it sort of expects us to have played the 2nd one + DLC to fully understand the story. I mean it’s not a bad thing, and might even make people want to buy ME2 DLC, but it just seems odd to release additional content and to refer to it in the sequel like it was part of the story. I’m sure it is, but some of it seems like vital information that I never got because I never played ME2 DLC.
^This^ Weren’t there characters and story lines that were exclusive to ME2 DLC that we were expected to know for ME3? That’s kind of ridiculous.
All valid points sir. I agree that not having Javik in your game diminishes the lore. And I also agree that what makes people love Mass Effect is the rich lore of the world behind it. I think the biggest point of agreement here is this. Don’t hate on Bioware. Direct your anger to EA. What I find interesting is that hardly anyone was up in arms about FF13 2, a game that arguably does not have an ending, until you buy some future DLC. I think that is more of a game-changer than the day one DLC thing.
Anyway, thanks for your well constructed and cogent points. It sure is a complex business. I guess we’ll see how the future pans out.
This is an excellent point. I think the problem is what you’re getting with the DLC.
The way we typically view DLC is an extension to the main game. The main game is self-contained, and if you want more of that experience, you can buy DLC.
THIS DLC actually changes the experience of the main game, which alters your perception of the value proposition of the main game. Now you feel like you’re not getting the full experience unless you pay more money.
It’s not a pleasant trend, but you can at least admire how smart it is to do it that way.
F online passes. F DLC. Not only do I hate First day DLC, I just hate DLC in general. Though First-Day DLC is obviously worse because as customers we feel shorted, it was already ready with the release of the game.
I’m not sure if they realize how many customers they’ve lost to this economic strategy. Well, maybe it’s working, I guess they would know since they got the digits, that’s why they may do it. But this shit from EA definitely ticks me off and I don’t buy anymore EA games anymore.
“Stop thinking you’re a producer and telling us when and where we should be building our content.”
Excuse me? We’re the people that pay for your games, buy your products/services, and are the sole reason you exist. The only reason publishers are willing to do business with you is because they can make money off of us. And the only reason you can make money off of us, is because we let you. We don’t think we’re the producer, we know we’re the market, and businesses do what the market demands, or they go away real quick. So if you want to sell millions of copies of whatever game you make, and make a living off of what you do right now, I suggest you listen to what the gaming community, and especially the hardcore fans of specific franchises that make up the base of the profits for that franchise, otherwise you’re gonna have some problems on your hands.
Yeah I was pretty disgusted when I read that, I mean I’m sure she’s not the Personal Relations Rep, and she’s hardly a representation of the workers at Riot or Bioware now, I think I just have better reason to hate Riot! (I already hate them just because I hate League of Legends, but that’s besides the point).
What a rude ass comment
Why is that rude? I’m directing it solely at her, I know she’s not a representative, she’s an individual who has made a comment I completely disagree with.
Look at me getting all defensive and shit, I need to stay off the internet and go do real world shit more often, this is getting bad for my health.
LOL not you being rude, her! <3
I know, I feel ashamed…
^ This.
As another poster mentioned, I’m more pissed about the endings. The DLC issue doesn’t bother me that much, though I can certainly understand the anger.
This practice of day one dlc IN GENERAL is absolutely retarded. The idea of conent being already on the disk and being unaccessible until you spend some “extra” $$$ to unlock it is simply immoral. Come on.
“The consumer doesn’t get to decide exactly how much content it is due from the supplier.” – Tengiri.
You have to be jesting! Heard of supply and demand before? The consumer pays the PRICE. If I demand and pay £40 or $60 for AAA title then I expect it to be a damn good and COMPLETE game! if the locked content is already on the disk why didn’t they simply charge the cost of the game plus dlc? Something like £46 and $70 for a finished non deluxe game… It is like going to a car dealer looking at the price tag of a car showing $10000. Then ofcourse you buy it but at the moment you expect the dealer to hand you over the keys he says pay me $1000 more for safety bags or seatbelts. how dumb would that be?
Such stupid marketing decision will simply have a “mass effect” on cracking/pirating of the pc version of the game! (you like that?:) GTA SA hot coffee anyone?
How about this for a marketing idea: In future, instead of selling a full game. The publisher after working for 2 years on a game should divide it into (lets say) 20 dlc priced seperately. The consumer has to buy a core dlc and then optional dlc to “broaden/improve” his experience. By buying just core dlc everyone completes “Skyrin 4.0″ in 10 minutes and nobody misses out on the story, right?. But stupid consumers should pay $100 for 30 optional dlcs and have “full-but-not-fair” experience. How about that? Shieeeeeeeeet I should be working at EA.
This has to be the most egotistical remark I’ve ever heard. And here I thought Bobby Kotick was the devil of the gaming industry. Compared to the shit that’s been happening with EA recently, kotick is a saint.
DLC isn’t the issue, I like to get some new content for mmy game a while after it’s released, it helps keep the game fresh. New maps, characters, weapons, missions, cars, etc. All of that makes a game more repeatable, without the $60 price tag.
The issue is that this content was finished BEFORE launch. THIS is content that, 10 years ago, would have shipped on launch day. It was part of the game. What gets shipped to the stores today, is an incomplete game. And they do this simply to make a quick Buck. I need to pay $60 for my game already, I expect $60 worth of content, I refuse to spend an extra $10 for what should be included in the game.
Just imagine if skyrim had pulled this. You get the game, but in order to access the guilds(arguably the best narrative in the game) you need to pay extra. That’s the concept here, and it’s ludicrous.
I can already see normal games moving the F2P model, where you need to make small transactions for almost necessary content, except instead of being F2P, I still need to pay for a retail game. I have lost a lot of respect for Bioware since DA2 was released, and with all the controversy over ME3, I’m debating as to weather I should ever purchase another Bioware game. Ever since the EASY buyout, their quality has been going downhill.
I COMPLETELY agree on losing faith in Bioware after DA2. That was one of the biggest disappointments for me out of all the years I’ve followed the industry. I could deal with the DA: Origins DLC format but that was when I realized that EA was pushing for more money, and less game content. Ever since that I can’t say I’m a fan of the developer or the publisher.
I meant EA in that last paragraph, my phones autocorrect is annoying.
The thing is how do we know that this DLC wasent meant to be released until later? but because microsoft put it on xbox live early, they had to rush it to be done? Am I the only one who thought that?
It’s on the disk. All of it. It’s literally completely already in-game, it’s just locked. Paying for it unlocks it.
WTF we the gamers are the one supposed to tell the developers what we like or not, she is an arrogant
She doesn’t seem to understand what dlc means. It’s a way to provide content after the core product is released. You can modify the .int file and unlock the prothean without any external help. That’s not providing new content, that’s just being greedy scum. i’ll stick to the witcher 2, where the devs actually care about their customers.
I just love how finding any problem with this at all automatically makes you a nerd that cries about the game and watched pornography afterwards. Really? That’s pretty childish. We’re entitled to our opinions of the game, and it’s “DLC” which obviously has become DISKLOADABLE CONTENT rather than downloadable. This, coupled with people getting banned from the singleplayer game for even just accidentally logging onto a hacked multiplayer game, really doesn’t make mass effect seem worthwhile anymore.
So, they think that just because the game is good enough, they have to leave content ON THE DISK locked out? And they are criticizing us for it? I’m reading right, right?
“Stop thinking you’re a producer and telling us when and where we should be building our content.”
They forget that its the people buying the game that keeps them employed. If they are not producing goods for us to buy that WE will enjoy they why are they working? It doesn’t matter whether we are producers or not people buying the games should be the ones they are looking to please.
I think he should have just not opened his mouth there imho….probably not the best choice of words.
I don’t see the fuss really call of duty release dlc the month after its release and then every month til the new comes out. Yes there trying to make a quick buck and maybe it is abit selfish however with alot of games give you buy the special edition/collorts edition it’s free. Only difference is that theyve made the dlc that comes with collectors edition avalible from day one unlike every other game when they decide they’re gonna release it.
But as some people mention, From Ashes has some to do with how you make your decisions and such in the single player campaign (as it does nothing for campaign). At least for CoD they release only multiplayer map packs, I feel like I lose nothing from not buying the CoD map packs, I could care less about map packs. And it’s ALL about it being released on the same day, with it being on the CD as well (though EA says you’re supposed to download a 600mb file). Yeah Acti/treyarch puts out a shitload of DLC, but at least they’re constantly working on their game, and maybe it was ready, maybe it wasn’t when the game was released. At least we don’t know, but as customers we feel short changed.
“Here, you paid $60 for this treasure chest”
Transaction completed
“By the way, it has 5 locks on it, you can only access 4 of the locks, I have the last key, you gotta pay $10 if you want it”. Even though you could say we already knew about the DLC on release date, WHICH makes it even worse! It was basically planned, they knew this content would be ready release day, but they still want $10 for it.
This is one of those days when it actually feels good to be a pirate. You are not getting any money from me BioWare. ^^
This has probably already been pointed out, but what if the disc was full? instead of condensing the game and possibly losing some quality or adding a second disc they just left it off? I know what you’re saying. in that case, make it free and say so. I agree, but i’m just bringing up that scenario. What would you all do if that happened? Personally, I would be fine with, and I don’t see why you wouldn’t. And as for the matter at hand, ME fans really are more vocal than most others. Hardcore CoD fans don’t complain as noticeably about forty seven map packs for fifteen dollars each. Or for paying for elite, which I find pointless. But they just do it, and no thread gets retweeted by the inside gaming twitter about how many people are going crazy about that. Day one dlc is ridiculous, especially if there is evidence of it on the default disc. But if it isnt on the disc, then maybe they were manufacturing the physical discs and didn’t want to delay the release, so they kept coding, expecting for the dlc to take a while, but it got finished sooner, soon enough for day one dlc perhaps? There isn’t really a perfect way to do anything. If you take too long and want it to be perfect, you get the whole HL3/KH3 thing. If you rush it, the game might be broken or something(bethesda, even though i love you). Or even longer and you get duke nukem forever. Unless you’re blizzard, developing diablo 3 for like twelve years.(I don’t know the actual time, and I don’t care. never played the games, realize they would be fun, but my computer sucks and I’m broke.) I don’t know how many points I’ve attempted to make, where I started, or how many ridiculous typos I’ve made, but there you go.
It was already on the disk, and even with that, the disk wasn’t full. There’s other stuff on the disk they’re releasing as DLC.
The only reason why it’s avalible to everyone ow is coz it got leaked it was meant to be a bonus for some people whole bought the collectors edition. It wasn’t mentioned on it but was included in the box. So maybe even they wasn’t ment to get it but it got finished early. You can make as much noise as you want but games these days come with dlc. I can’t remember a game that hasn’t had some form of dlc within the last few years including all the updates and or skins for avatars ect. They wouldn’t make them if people didn’t buy them. Take batman Arkham city. Day one dlc for catwoman yes it was included on every new copy but if your buying second hand you have to buy it or the story changes. So wheres the uproar with that?
The whole point of dlc is to extend a game’s lifetime.
This so called DLC was part of the collectors edition of the game. They just put it out for those would didnt get the CE copy of the game. Stop crying its a business first before anything else and in a successful business your try to maximize your profits.
I think since they shove origins down your throat to be able to play it decently,pirvately, and unrestricted you need to “mod” anyways so you may as well mod the content that is already present to make it playable.
They treat customers worse and worse and the only reason they leave to buy it is tradition. I think once your clerks start spitting on people because they still want to pay with cash vs credit (requires boring counting) they shouldn’t be suprised when they have stacks of bricks coming in the windows.
I think they pour so much money into everything they assume fans won’t mind pouring 3-4 digits either. Go ahead, bill me a quarter each save and force auto save on. I mean if mommy and daddy don’t love you .25 x1000 then you shouldn’t be gaming :)
I miss the days when you bought a great or crappy game and that was that. Chrono Trigger didn’t offer me a Robo if I preordered at the 7-11. Best that way.
What I don’t like about DLC in this case is that games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age has DLC at all. They are very in-depth narritive experiences that once you’ve already completed it, it’ll never be as awe-inspiring as the first time. And in too many cases they add the DLC later so that you’d have to play it all over again just to experience those 1-2 hours of content spread out through the game.
I believe games like these should have NOTHING to add at a later point unless it’s expansions that tell the story beyond and after.
Games like Skyrim and Fallout are great examples of games that should have DLC. They’re not games that are almost but not completeley driven by the narritive and story.
This is why I will never buy a DLC for Mass Effect, unless ofcourse it’s and intresting story piece that comes after, which is; in my opinion, something that shouldn’t happen.